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    November 24, 2008

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    Ide Cyan

    Hi. I'm the Ide Cyan who wrote the FSF Blog entry you quote.

    Regarding the part of my text that you excerpted, I would like to clarify that the convergence between relations of domination and romance isn't coming from the Twilight series, since your worries center on your daughter learning lessons from those books.

    That convergence comes from the institutions and customs that already delineate the interaction between the classes of oppressor and oppressed when the class in question is gender, and passes from those material conditions into popular culture. (If there were no material basis for them, those fantasies wouldn't seem nearly as dangerous.)

    This goes a long way back. It comes from such instutions as marriage and family structure, with women being considered their fathers' and husbands' property, under legal and religious edicts, which still persists symbolically in modern ceremonies when the bride is given away from one to the other. And from married women losing all rights to their own property under English law, for instance, until the Married Women's Property Act of 1870 and 1892, or women not being able to work without their husbands' permissions in France until the 1940s, from ongoing restrictions on work for women and sexual harassment in the workplace. From restrictions on reproductive freedom for women, which are still being fought today in the US, and from the difficulties women face in getting the laws against domestic violence enforced. Although considerable gains have been made toward equality, there remain enough material conditions to continue to create that convergence today.

    Stephenie Meyer's work doesn't come out of nowhere. While Mormon ideology may be a factor in her writing, and many of her critics may choose to blame it because they can draw parallels there, there is a long tradition of representation of the convergence in literature by women, from Emily Brontë's Wuthering Heights to Christine Feehan's dozens of novels, because women do face that convergence as a fact of life because of patriarchal oppression -- which extends far beyond mormonism.

    And we shouldn't forget the flipside of women's romances that try to persuade readers of love's power to mitigate men's power over women. There is a converse form of propaganda telling men and boys, in literature, art, pornography, prostitution and so forth, that they have every right to assert their domination over women, that women are asking for it and secretly agree to be dominated, and that portrays sexuality as the (reciprocally oh so very assymmetrical) basis of women's power over men. This form of propaganda isn't primarily aimed at women, but its codes enter by sideways and dialogues into the messages sent to girls and women about pleasing men.

    While the messages in dark romances written by women are troubling, the difference is that Edward Cullen and Heathcliff are safe insofar as they are fantasies controlled by women. The reason that they are not entirely safe is that they reflect realities over which women have far less control.

    I cannot gauge whether your daughter distinguishes the ways in which the extent of her agency changes between fantasy and reality, but perhaps if you discussed it with her, with a view towards establishing shared grounds for political action for you both, that would make you feel better about her choice of fantasies.


    (FYI, I found your post by doing a search for the entry title after finding it reposted in its entirety, without attribution, here: http://californialog.com/news/feminist-mom-talks-twilight/ , since I couldn't respond there. I don't know whether you are aware of that site's use of your entry or not.)

    CA NOW

    Ide Cyan, thanks for the heads-up about that other blog. It looks like they've used a number of our posts without attribution.

    Ide Cyan

    This blog entry by Helen Keeble might also interest you, since she talks about the book's appeal to young girls from a different perspective:

    http://helen-keeble.livejournal.com/74065.html

    feministbitch

    Thanks again for your insights here, Ide, and for the link to Keeble's piece.

    Rachel Allen

    Thank you Ide! I agree Keeble's post is very interesting.

    Kathleen

    Hi I'm Kat. A mom of 3 boys and also a feminist. I have read all 4 books in the Twilight saga. The irony in your conversations is that I was googleing feminist conversation and books for a research paper. After readig these blogs I find myself with my mouth gaped open with the need to speak!. While I respect the opinions of every human I must sometimes interject mine. I am sorry if I ruin the stories for anyone who plans to read them, (so don't read further if you plan to read the twilight books) that being said if you would read the books thoroughly you (anyone) could see that the books most powerful characters are Bella and Jane (physically and mentally) women. Bells is portrayed as a stubborn girl.... As a "damaged" teen myself (damaged used instead of any gory details) I see myself in these stories. As a mom of 3 boys I have encouraged my oldest (12) to read along with me. The chracter "Edward" the boyfriend is anything but abusive. He is willing to sacrifice his own life for her happiness in every book. The only negative at all would be that she is too passionate for a 17 yr old girl. But actually that is the time we are most passionate about love...before it has a chance to go wrong. I could go on and on but I'll stop for now. I'd love to get in on this chat.....--Kat

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